CHBN Radio interview with T J Dockree

Transcript:

Ella Walsworth-Bell 00:04
Good morning. This is Ella Walsworth-Bell, writer and poet from Cornwall. We’re going to be talking about writing today, and here I have with me, Tracey Dockree. Tracey is a sustainable fashion designer based in Truro, and she designs and creates elegant yet joyful clothes, using cut offs, remnants and unwanted clothing to reduce textile waste. Tracey is also a writer. She is a writer and prize-winning poet. I love that. And Tracey, you set up the Cornwall Writers website in 2019 to connect writers together, and since then, have published three short story anthologies. It is a delight to have you here today. How are you doing?

Tracey Dockree 00:53
Thank you very much, Ella. I’m doing very well, thank you, and delighted to be here.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 00:59
Good. And what started that process when you set up the Cornwall Writers website. I hadn’t realized it was so long ago. It feels so fresh and new.

Tracey Dockree 01:07
We started doing meetups for authors locally, just because I was normally, I write on my own, and it’s a lonely thing. It can be very lonely. I just felt I needed other people to kind of lob ideas at and chat about things, you know, editing, and all the things that we get stuck in. And at first it was only a few of us, but it grew really, really fast. And then we decided to do an anthology. I felt that we needed somewhere to put it, to sell it. It also occurred to me that I could help support local writers by, you know, giving them a profile on the website and sharing their books. And it’s kind of a place where people can go to find local authors and local stories.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 01:57
Well, that’s perfect, because actually, everybody is at a slightly different place in that process, aren’t they? Some people will have been writing for a while and have had books published, and others are really fresh, new authors. So that kind of connects the two together, doesn’t it really?

Tracey Dockree 02:17
Yep, so we’ve also been developing the, like a writing group website as well, and we share about competitions coming up, and we also have the Facebook group. I think we’ve got over 300 authors in there now. It’s very informal, but it’s a place where people can kind of say ‘Look, I’m a bit stuck on this. Has anyone got any advice?’

Ella Walsworth-Bell 02:41
It’s not just authors within Cornwall, is it? Is it authors who are from Cornwall? What’s the criteria?

Tracey Dockree 02:46
You have to have a connection to Cornwall. So, you might have lived here in the past and maybe moved away or maybe moved down to Cornwall and live here now, or you just may be inspired by Cornwall, and all your books are about Cornwall. So, as long as there’s a reasonably strong connection to Cornwall, you’re in, you’re alright.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 03:06
Oh, fantastic. I didn’t realize you met up in person as well, because I joined on book two, which was right in the middle of the pandemic. And we did all our meetings over video call, didn’t we?

Tracey Dockree 03:19
So, we had a little space in Epiphany House for a little while. So we met there a few times. We met in the Writer’s Block a couple of times. So different places just to chat about the short story project. And also for, you know, meeting up for coffees and stuff as well. But yeah, COVID changed all that quite dramatically.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 03:38
It changed a lot of things, didn’t it? Yeah, but you managed to keep it going, which is great and all credit to you. Tracey, I’m wondering who you’d be able to read one of your short stories.

Tracey Dockree 03:48
This one’s in Cornwall Secret and Hidden called Slagoon’s Breath:

‘The old fisherman hunkered down and looked young Bobby in the eye. “It’s a scary story, boy, are you sure you want to hear it?”
Bobby nodded, his longing for a good story fed rather than diminished by the terror he felt at this one-eyed giant crouched before him. Bobby watched a small fly wander over the old man’s leather eye patch, which barely concealed the vivid scars beneath. His brothers had dared him to steal it. Bobby couldn’t think of any forfeit worse than what might happen if he reached up and pulled the patch away. What horror lay beneath?
Two teenage faces spied on him through a gap under the Slagoon sign. Old Fred glared at them. They ducked out of sight but their attempts to be quiet failed, in snorted gasps of laughter.
Fred grunted. “I hope the nightmares you’re going to have tonight will be worth what your babysitters are offering you. How old are you? Six?”
“Seven!” Bobby puffed his chest out in pride.
The old man laughed and brushed the dirt off a bench in front of the porch. “Sit down.” He patted the bench and Bobby climbed up. “Well, let’s begin, shall we?
“It was a stormy night, and all the shutters were banging on the windows. Gates kept flying open because people forgot to shut them properly. Annoying, is that”
Fred sucked at his pipe and exhaled. Bobby coughed and waved the bitter, choking fumes away from his face.
“We didn’t want to go out, but we couldn’t ignore the flare for help. We could hear ‘em screaming, even from the shore, as their souls were thrown from the ship into the deep below.” Fred looked sombre and shook his head. “If we’d a known why, we’d a stayed away. But we thought a ship was going down and people needed rescuing, so we launched the lifeboat and headed out.
“When we got closer, we saw why the waves were so big. It wasn’t because of the storm but because there was something under the water churning it all up – like when you’re playing monsters and battles in the bath, and you get water all over the floor.” Fred pulled the pipe from his mouth and then closer to Bobby. “Then we saw the tentacles!” He shuddered involuntarily and pulled up his sleeve. A set of large, white, circular welts mottled his bronzed old skin.
“It got us. It curled one of its tentacles under our lifeboat and squeezed us, like we were a sponge. Tighter and tighter, like a boa constrictor, it was! Until the boat popped and cracked and fell apart. It kept squeezing and squeezing and me and Billy were stuck in its grip. I shouted and hollered but poor Billy was unconscious.” Fred mumbled and calmed himself by sucking at his pipe. “Then, he tossed us up in the air. I thought we were free! But no! That blighter was gonna eat us.
“Billy fell first and disappeared into his mouth. I tell you, I was so scared, knowing I was next. I prayed so hard, and I didn’t believe in God then!” He tapped the pipe out on the ground. The warm ashes glowed then dissolved from grey to black into the damp earth. “Then I fell into that monster’s maw.”
“He ate you?” Bobby squeaked.
Fred nodded solemnly, opened a tobacco pouch, and waited.
“But how did you escape?” Bobby asked.
A voice from the other side of the wall interrupted the tale. “Phil! Steve! What are you two doing down there? Where’s your brother? He better not be in there or, God help me, I’ll beat the pair of you to the other side of Cornwall.
Fred stood up and slipped something into Bobby’s pocket. “Time to be off, son.”
“But I want to hear what happened!”
“And I want to tell yer, lad, but I’m no match for your mum over there and she’s just fulfilling the curse of Nanny Trenown.”
The gate banged open. Bobby’s mum entered, dragging a boy at each side by the ear.
“Bobby B! What have I told you about coming here? Home! Right now!”
“But Mum! I want to know how the story ends!”
“And you!” Mum let go of one of the boys to jab her finger at Fred. “I’ve told you not to go filling my children’s heads with your stories. What have you been telling him?”
Fred filled up his pipe. “It’s just a story. He knows it ends well ‘cos I’m here and I’m safe, aren’t I?”
Mrs B pursed her skinny, ruby lips and grabbed Bobby by the arm. “That may be so, but I don’t want him having nightmares like all the other kids in the village.” She marched away, her boys dragging behind like a flotilla in the wake of a battleship.
The fisherman settled back to enjoy his pipe, humming himself a little song about kraken and mermaids and sea serpents.
Bobby found the wooden kraken in his pocket when he got undressed. Once he’d scrambled into bed, he stroked the faint, round notches that marked the suckers. He placed it on the nightstand and lay down, watching to see if the creature would yield clues to its tale. But the Cornish oak simply watched him back. Bobby’s eyes closed without enlightenment.
That night he dreamt of Fred and the kraken. Fred was out fishing in his boat, smoking his pipe and talking to the night air. The sea below began to bubble and churn. Massive tentacles erupted, throwing Fred and his boat into the air. Bobby watched as Fred fell towards the gaping maw of the kraken below. A scream pierced the air, waking him up.’

Ella Walsworth-Bell 09:18
Oh, that’s fab! Do you know I actually haven’t read that one. I feel like I should have done my homework this time. I would call that horror genre, but maybe it’s not. So, what was the inspiration behind that one, Tracey? Was it from a person or, you know, a character that you had in mind? Or is it from a place? How do you get that inspiration as your starting point?

Tracey Dockree 09:41
Interestingly, for that particular one, so every November we do National Novel Writing Month. I mean, we just write and write and see if we can get, like, a very rough outline of the first draft done.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 09:52
Wow. You mean of the first draft of a whole novel, do you mean? In a month? Yeah, that’s probably why I’ve never done that because it sounds almost impossible. It’s shortened online, isn’t it? It’s called NaNoWriMo. Is that right? Yeah, National Novel Writing Month, which is in November.

Tracey Dockree 10:12
Yep. Just to kind of make it a bit more exciting, we have teams. We try and have, like, a Cornish theme to the team. It’s all sorts of random things.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 10:20
Did you set this up yourself? Or is this on the NaNoWriMo website or something?

Tracey Dockree 10:26
So, NaNoWriMo has been going for years and years. (Yeah) I joined it in I…can’t remember now…is it 2017 or 2018? And I got asked if I would be the facilitator – I didn’t know what to call it, really – for Cornwall, yeah, which I’ve done pretty much ever since then. (Yeah) So I basically rustle everyone up and kind of cheerlead them.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 10:52
So, it’s kind of almost competitive to see how many right words you can write. You’re not worrying about the quality of the writing. You’re just getting them on the page and seeing what happens.

Tracey Dockree 11:01
Basically! And encouraging people to just write. Don’t try and edit as you go. Just write as much as you can. For some people, for me, particularly, I need a bit of extra motivation, because I’m not very good at self-motivating. So the teams are a little bit of rivalry to kind of see who can get the most words in the team. In a particular year we had, I think it was mythical Cornish creatures as our different teams.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 11:28
Oh, that’s good. So to give it a theme, something to write to.

Tracey Dockree 11:32
Yeah. There was a Cornish kraken, there was something or other, I can’t remember now what it was exactly, one of the teams, and I just thought, right I’m using him for my inspiration.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 11:42
Yeah, writing to a theme, it always seems like a bit of a challenge for me, and then something quite unusual surprises me about it, when I get going. I’m like, ‘Oh, I didn’t think that was going to be inspiring but look what I’ve written.’

I’m wishing I knew a Cornish word for kraken now, like sea monster. I’m sure there is one, and one of our listeners will be listening in going ‘that’s the word!’

Tracey Dockree 12:07
Probably!

Ella Walsworth-Bell 12:08
There’s a sea dragon. I know there’s a sea dragon, and there’s all kinds of things out at sea. I’m about to be moving on to a boat for a month. Listening to that story, it was like nightmare stuff, isn’t it? Which book was that for, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 12:19
So that was Cornwall Secret and Hidden.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 12:23
And that was book two, basically, of the trilogy. We’re allowed to call it a trilogy because there’s three. So the first one was called Cornwall Misfits, Curiosities and Legends. And that really piques your interest, doesn’t it? It’s a great title. The third book is the most recent, which is called Cornwall Beneath and Beyond, and that’s just been published, hasn’t it?

Tracey Dockree 12:45
Yes, literally, a couple of months ago.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 12:49
Yeah. Wow. And what are you most proud of with these books? Is it getting the people together or, you know, which part of the process is the most enjoyable?

Tracey Dockree 12:57
I really like all the peer feedbacks that we do, where we kind of read each other’s stories and, you know, just give feedback on what we feel works, what maybe could be tweaked a bit to make it, improve it.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 13:13
And that’s a bit like Marmite, isn’t it? Some people, when you first start that process, it can be absolutely horrifying to share your work, which has previously only existed on a bit of paper, with somebody else, and say, look, what do you think needs changing?

Tracey Dockree 13:30
Yeah, I think the first time I did it, for our first anthology, is the first time I’d ever done it. It was quite scary. And when I got the feedback, there was a part of me that was like, ‘No, I can’t change any of these! They’re my babies!’ But they were right. And I did change it and it was much better.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 13:46
I was looking up some information about you, Tracey, on the internet before this chat. I also saw that you’d written some poetry, which I did not know about before, Tracey, so you’ve hidden that one very well. Tell me about your poetry. Did that come before the short stories?

Tracey Dockree 14:02
I’ve always dabbled in writing, you know, since I was very, very young. Probably from about, well, almost as soon as I could write. I’ve always loved stories, but I didn’t try poetry until, I think, I was in my 20s, and someone suggested to me that they thought that I should give it a go and to submit to some competitions. And I actually managed to win one.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 14:29
That is great. I’ve never won a poetry competition, but then I’m usually a bit scared about entering, so…

Tracey Dockree 14:34
I think the trick is just enter anyway, and just let it go. Don’t worry about the result. Just keep entering and one of them will do it.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 14:42
Just have a go. Oh, and do you want to share any of your poems today, Tracey, or are you keeping them firmly tucked away? I always love a poem. What’s it called, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 14:52
So, it’s called The Maiden. So, when I was at uni, the first time around, I spent a lot of my time in the local cafe. For a short while, there was this weird happening of guys kept coming in and sitting at the opposite table and kind of, I don’t know, making eyes then wandering out again. It was disconcerting, really. Yeah, so this is what the poem’s kind of about.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 15:18
Oh interesting, right? So, The Maiden. Were you TJ, back then? Or were you Tracey Dockree?

Tracey Dockree 15:24
I was actually Tracey, at that point.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 15:25
Oh, Tracey, okay.

Tracey Dockree 15:26
So, this is before I had any ambition to be a fashion designer. So,

The Maiden
In that crowded, heated room,
there sat the beautiful woman-child,
all the world sought out her bloom,
her soulful spirit growing wild

Every kind of man fought to possess her,
never seeing the anguish deep inside,
none conceived of the fight within her,
as all the while she cried and cried.

A poison took hold upon her mind,
It devoured her as she watched the fight outside,
but none, who fought for her, thought at all
of the tormented soul that was struggling inside.

The world was fighting to have her beside him,
the most beautiful trophy that was had in a war,
hence they declined to support and be beside her,
to fight in her the worst war of all.

She fled that crowded, heated place,
and wrenched away from her dying heart,
her soul soared free, true to its fate,
and rested her mind at peace, alone.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 16:27
I did not expect that, Tracey. That was really lovely. Gosh, yeah, it made the hairs on the back of my neck go up. It must be strange looking back on something you wrote a while ago, and it’s almost like you’re looking at something another person has written, isn’t it?

Tracey Dockree 16:44
It is, yeah. It makes it easier to read as well, because I’m not that person anymore. I haven’t written poetry for a long, long time.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 16:53
Yeah, but it’s still got that universal appeal when you’re thinking about your daughter or you think, you know, you can think really think it through, can’t you? And the words still work their magic. It’s like they’ve taken an emotion or something you’re going through, and they’ve kind of solidified it. Haven’t they? And made something beautiful of it. So yeah, well, that’s definitely a prize, prize winning poem, Tracey. Thank you for sharing.

Tracey Dockree 17:18
Thank you.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 17:19
You said you were at university, and then you went back again. Where were you studying, Tracey? And what were you studying?

Tracey Dockree 17:27
So, the first time around, I was at London School of Economics studying international politics.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 17:35
Oh, I was in university in London as well. I loved, loved living there, actually. But I would never dreamt of studying international politics. Wow.

Tracey Dockree 17:43
And then the second time was at Falmouth University. (Okay) And that was doing fashion design.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 17:49
Wow. That sounds like an unstoppable mix, with economics and fashion design, but actually, for you…and I, you’ll have to forgive me, because I know very little about fashion or design, but it sounds more as though you’re focusing on the sustainability of fashion rather than selling lots of garments. Is that how it works? Or have I misunderstood completely?

Tracey Dockree 18:16
That’s pretty much true. Yeah. So it’s, it’s about thoughtful design putting, I suppose, love and care into the making of the clothes. So, it’s almost like your mum might have made if she was sewing for you.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 18:32
Yeah, my mum would be not very good at making stuff, but she would have a good go at making a cool bag for me, for instance.

Tracey Dockree 18:42
Yeah, because my mom used to make a lot of stuff for me, (Yeah) I didn’t learn to sew until quite late. I was probably in my 30s.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 18:50
And tell me about the t-shirts, because I’ve got written down ‘Story in T shirts. Ask Tracey.’ What is A Story in T Shirts? That sounds like a kind of mix of writing and fashion all mixed in together.

Tracey Dockree 19:05
Well, yeah, it is pretty much. So, I finished my degree and I was trying to set up the, you know, my business of doing something related to fashion. And my husband was saying, ‘You need to write your novel.’ And I said, ‘Well, I can’t write my novel and do fashion at the same time. It’s just not gonna happen. It’s just, just too much.’ I woke up one morning with this, with this dream and these t-shirts floating in the air with different scenes from my story or my novel, (Oh wow) and so A Story In T Shirts was born. So, yeah.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 19:39
Oh, that’s great. I, you know, I can’t conceive of writing a great big novel. I can imagine, like, the visuals I would have with each of my short stories. And they would, you would wear them as a t-shirt, wouldn’t you, because these are characters and scenes you’ve created. Yeah, I really love that.
We’ve been chatting for a little while, and I wonder, at this point I start thinking about the break and a cup of tea. Be nice if you could choose some music just before the break, Tracey, and maybe talk for a little bit about why you’ve chosen that music. I started off with this show about asking people what music they liked to write to. And almost all writers say they prefer to write in absolute silence. So yeah, there’s probably some reason behind your musical choice. So, if you could tell us a little bit about that, that would be great.

Tracey Dockree 20:30
Okay, so one of the reasons I don’t have music on when I’m writing is because I would want to be in the world of the music rather than the world of my story. So, and I can’t split my attention. When I listen to music, I like to listen to it totally. (Yeah) And when I’m writing a story, I like to be immersed in it totally. And so, the song that I’ve chosen is Dirty Paws by Of Monsters and Men and it was on, I first came across it on, it was, we were watching The Secret Life of Walter Mitty. (Oh yes) And I loved, I loved that film. That for me, I am Walter Mitty at the beginning,

Ella Walsworth-Bell 21:19
Who does it star? Who’s the person starring in that movie?

Tracey Dockree 21:22
Oh, what’s he called?

Ella Walsworth-Bell 21:25
I’m trying to think, but it’s this theory, the idea behind it, is he’s doing a really boring office job, but he’s imagining fantastic places and adventures.

Tracey Dockree 21:34
Amazing adventures, amazing adventures. And then at some point, he’s like, he just has to…I think a negative goes missing and it’s, like, the most important negative that he needs for the front cover, for the very final edition of this magazine. (Yeah) So he has to go and track it down. (Okay?) And then it’s just, and then the adventure starts. He just goes from one rash decision to another.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 22:05
Well, that is a whole story of t-shirts, right there, isn’t it? For every single adventure, I can see this.

Tracey Dockree 22:11
Yeah and I think, Dirty Paws I particularly like because I like ballads. I like songs that tell a story. It starts off with this kind of gentle, ambling ballad but the choruses, they just, I don’t know, they just really lift me up there. It’s just, yeah…

Ella Walsworth-Bell 22:35
Fantastic. Prepare to be blown away then.
This is Dirty Paws by Of Monsters and Men

Song plays.

Ella Walworth-Bell 26:51
Welcome back after the break. You’ve been listening to Dirty Paws by Of Monsters and Men chosen by our guest for today, Tracey Dockree. Hi, Tracey.
Tracey is a fashion designer based in Truro and she also spearheaded the Cornwall Writers website, who have put together not one, but three anthologies by Cornwall Writers. Short story anthologies. And one is Cornwall Misfits, Curiosities and Legends. The second is Cornwall Secret and Hidden and the third is Cornwall Beneath and Beyond. How did you choose those titles, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 27:39
Well, we did it democratically. We voted. So, we basically had a brainstorming meeting and we all came up with ideas for different words and different themes. And then we put all the words together and had a vote on which ones to go for. And we chose. So, for the first book, we decided we’d have three words and combine them, So whichever top three words came up, we’d combine them, and that would be ours, our book. It was a brilliant title. The problem was it was very difficult to remember. For the other books we decided just to have two words for each of those.

Ella Walworth-Bell 28:16
I like that. I like the way of randomly combining them. If you, if you asked a class of school children to do that, you could come up with all sorts. But writers must be slightly easier to corral.

Tracey Dockree 28:29
Yeah, I’m not convinced about that.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 28:30
Oh, that’s great. Tracey, I would love for you to share more of your writing and a different short story this time. Bound to be one that I haven’t read, but which one would you like to share? It might be nice to hear one from the most recently… because Cornwall Beneath and Beyond, I wish you could see the cover on radio. If I describe it – I’m sure Tracey’s got one there, right in front of her – but the cover is kind of, it’s almost under the sea, isn’t it? It’s got this fabulous seaweed…

Tracey Dockree 28:59
Yes and it kind of surrounds the titles, kind of a little bit ominously but beautifully at the same time. And you’ve got this little tin mine, as well.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 29:09
It shouts Cornwall at you as well, doesn’t it? It kind of shouts of ‘under the water’, but also absolutely on theme for Cornwall, which is what you want, really. First two books, you had two different stories in but in Cornwall Beneath and Beyond, there’s just the one of yours, isn’t there, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 29:27
Yeah, I decided I didn’t quite have time to do two. So I put everything into doing a really good one. That doesn’t mean the others weren’t good but…

Ella Walworth-Bell 29:38
And it’s kind of beneath and beyond in this one. It’s almost about good and evil, isn’t it? Because it’s The Saint and the Smugglers, is the title of it.

Tracey Dockree 29:45
It is, yeah, so I decided to go for a more spiritual interpretation of ‘beneath and beyond’. The demons that live beneath Cornwall.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 29:55
Why not? Bring on the demons? Right? Go for it, Tracey. Do you want to share some of your story?

Tracey Dockree 30:01
So,

The Saint and the Smugglers
Deep, deep down beneath Bodmin Moor, in a cathedral cavern lit by hell’s fires, CRAVEN, Lord of Cornwall’s demons, sat on his slave-built throne of bones. His eyes widened and flared in spasms of tortured anger as he absent-mindedly picked at his fangs with long, gnarly fingers. A row of servile fiends bowed and fidgeted before their master and a newly inducted imp, on hands and knees, served as footstool for CRAVEN’s spikey-booted feet, flinching in masochistic ecstasy whenever a choleric tremor punctured his skin.
At length, CRAVEN lurched up onto his feet, imp collapsing beneath his weight. The demon lord snarled and whipped the nearest whimpering servant, INTEMPERANCE, with his tail. ‘Where is that insolent glass-gazer?’ he demanded.
INTEMPERANCE threw himself onto his knees, head down and bottom up. ‘He’s in the Smugglers Caves at Perranporth,’ he squeaked.
‘Take me to him.’

The slap of waves on the cliff echoed dully against the wooden hull of a rowing gig. Over the previous hour, the wallowing tub, packed full of cargo, became a sprightly mare, freed from all burdens and eager to set sail. Its load had travelled, under cover of the dark night, by ropes and pulleys up the cliff face and disappeared into the caves above.
Ned and Obadiah heaved the last of the crates onto the cave floor.
’Twenty-five crates. I thought we’d sink before we get here,” Ned said, flapping at any dirt that might have dared stray onto his outfit. He opened up one of the crates and pulled a bottle of cognac from its nest of wood shavings. He stroked the black and gold label. ‘How much do you think this is worth?’
Old Obadiah lit a candle and the flame’s reflection illuminated his tired, grey eyes. ‘A guinea or two?’ He leaned over for a closer look and licked his lips. ‘Do you think they’ll miss a bottle?’
Ned snorted. ‘They’ll miss it. They count every blade of hay, that lot.’ He carefully laid the bottle back into its cosy bed.
An enticing reverie caught hold of Obadiah as he gazed at the rows of brandy and smiled, revealing his one brown tooth. ‘I’ve always wanted to try the finer stuff. I likes my gin but I’m hankering for something a bit special.’
Hopeful aspiration pushed Ned to open a few more crates. He rummaged inside some of the cases to deliver up its treasures. The contents of one small case, bound in leather, caused his face to soften and glow in delight. ‘Oh, la, la! Look at these babies!’ Ned pulled a silk cravat from a tightly packed bale of bright-coloured fabrics. ‘Now isn’t that dandy! What do you think? Huh? The ladies will love me in this!’
Obadiah watched Ned wrap the kerchief around his neck then grinned. ‘That baby blue suits you.’

VANITY, the demon, strutted between the smugglers and bowed magnificently to rounds of imagined applause. The men could not see the dandy demon, dressed in velvets and silk, even though they yielded to his influence. VANITY smirked. ‘These idiots fall for every temptation I offer them. They’re so easy to play with.’ He jumped up onto the crate of silks and surveyed his domain, absent-mindedly twirling an ivory skull-topped walking cane. Then he sighed and plonked himself down. ‘Oh, but I’m getting so bored. I’m meant for greater things than this!’ He watched the men giggling over their treasures. ‘I need to up the stakes. I need to get them to do something terrible.’ He smirked. ‘Then I can get into LUCIFER’s bad books!’
A darkness towered over him, and VANITY looked up into CRAVEN’s scarred face. VANITY stretched his mouth into a big smile and offered a small wave. ‘Master! What terrible deed and tribulation would you have me do to these mewling men?’
Flames erupted from CRAVEN’s nose and tinged the air with sulphur. Mouth twitching, he pinned VANITY’s neck down to the ground. ‘Stick to the plan, slave. Do you not remember what happened last time you decided to be creative? Because I do. MORNINGSTAR banished us to this tiny spit of land because of you and your arrogance. I will not be so lenient with you if you mess up again.’
CRAVEN let VANITY go and pulled INTEMPERANCE from where he was cowering behind a liquor crate. ‘Keep this idiot in check or you will suffer too!’ CRAVEN left after a parting snarl in VANITY’s face.
Once he was sure CRAVEN had gone, VANITY rolled over, laughing. ‘Pfft! What they gonna do? Send me back to hell? I’m a demon! I love that torture stuff!’ He rubbed his neck and scowled.
INTEMPERANCE whimpered nervously.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 34:46
I love the idea of all the demons being, being punished by being sent to Cornwall. That’s great. They’re obviously all here. End of the line. Is the smugglers cave, is that a pub in Perranporth?

Tracey Dockree 35:00
There could have been a pub in Perranporth called that, but there are actually smugglers caves in Perranporth.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 35:08
Oh wow, there’s actually caves. Wow.

Tracey Dockree 35:09
Yeah. There’s caves smugglers used to use. If you go to Perranporth, just behind Droskyn, on top of the beach, you can go around this – oh what’s it called – it’s like a youth hostel place.

Ella Walworth-Bell 35:21
Oh, yes, yes. I know where you mean, yep.

Tracey Dockree 35:23
Keep going round, then you come to these caves and there’s like loads of them. And that’s where the smugglers used to stash their stuff and hide it from the customs men.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 35:32
So Perranporth. It would be pretty busy this time of year, but is that, would that be your beach of choice from Truro, Tracey? Would you go out there to get your fix of Cornwall beaches and wind in the hair?

Tracey Dockree 35:50
Well, I actually used to live near there, in Perrancoombe.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 35:53
Oh, did you?

Tracey Dockree 35:55
So, Perranporth, yeah, I used to go down there. And it used to be my place to go, if I was feeling a bit down, especially. It was just the best place to go to just have it all blown away.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 36:04
This kind of brings me to my next question really, which is what brought you to Cornwall in the first place? Was it to go to university or was it somewhere you always wanted to live?

Tracey Dockree 36:15
My mom and dad brought me down when I was 18 months old. And then, they used to come here, when they were kids, on holidays. So they always wanted to move here. So they moved down when I was very, very young. (Oh, wow) And then I went away to go to university the first time. And then came back again.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 36:37
Oh fantastic. And Perranporth is, now, is that the setting for one of your other kind of projects as well Tracey, one of your other longer pieces that you’re working on?

Tracey Dockree 36:49
Yes, so the novel that I’m actually working on at the minute, Timeline 67, I’d say a couple of chapters’ worth in, spent in Perranporth, a little bit in St Agnes and then, yeah, then stuff happens.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 37:05
And, and what is it about? What genre is your, your work in progress, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 37:12
So it, it’s fantasy. I suppose you could call it sci-fi. So it’s set in 1901 and the original inspiration for it is a shipwreck.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 37:14
We’ve got enough of those. Yep.

Tracey Dockree 37:27
And this particular one, the ship was called the Voorspoed. (Yeah) Which is Dutch.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 37:33
So a Dutch boat.

Tracey Dockree 37:35
Which grounded, quite safely as it turned out, on Perranporth Beach.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 37:43
Right. So with the crew, could they just walk away from the boat?

Tracey Dockree 37:47
Well, they were rescued with a rocket, the ropes and pulleys that they use. And the captain, he said that he would never leave his ship and he had, he had to have – there was another ship that had been wrecked just recently that was in quite a state – and he was pointed to look at that, to say look, you’re gonna have to come off because that is going to be your boat if you don’t come off.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 38:10
So your book is based around the, the crew and that time, really, I suppose.

Tracey Dockree 38:17
Yes. So it kind of brought my main character from Amsterdam, or a few of my main characters from Amsterdam to Cornwall, and they are the ones who are the main characters for most of the book.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 38:31
Oh fantastic. And how far have you got with it, Tracey? Because I say work in progress, but it might be finishing touches, I don’t know.

Tracey Dockree 38:40
Not quite, no. When I did the first NaNoWriMo that I did.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 38:43
So that’s the National Novel Writing Month, wasn’t it? You were saying in November where you just write each day until you’ve written a whole load of words.

Tracey Dockree 38:51
Yep, that’s the one. So, I got 50,000 words done of it for that. (Okay) And now I’m kind of going back and basically filling the gaps and, kind of, had time to think more about the story, there’s a lot has changed.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 39:10
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes a bit of time away from your story can be helpful, can’t it, with when you look back at it.

Tracey Dockree 39:17
Yeah, so some parts that, some of the relations, the relationship between two of the characters that I just couldn’t quite work out… (Yeah) why they behave the way they did. And then suddenly, I think it was like, a week or so ago, it suddenly hit me – they’re brother and sister.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 39:33
Oh, that’s interesting.

Tracey Dockree 39:37
That’s why it’s not working. So yeah.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 39:39
Oh, that sounds like a great project to be working on, Tracey, and something absolutely which will take as much time as you can throw at it.
Tracey, if you, if there are people listening who want to write and maybe don’t know how to start. Or they are already writing, but they want help or they’re not quite sure and they want to make their writing better. What would your advice be for people who are starting out with writing?

Tracey Dockree 40:04
If you haven’t started yet, I think the best start is just to sit down and just write something. Anything. And just, just see where the muse takes you because you’ll be surprised at what it will give you. And don’t worry about it being okay. Because, if it’s not, you can either edit it or put it on the back burner and write something else that’s better. In terms of improving your writing, I think I would recommend getting together with other writers and doing critiques with other writers. Because other people have insights into your story that you just would not have.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 40:44
I thought you might say that. Yeah.

Tracey Dockree 40:46
Yeah. And if you can afford it, I would actually say, you know, do some writing courses as well. I did one recently. Last summer, actually, with Emily, one of our writers.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 40:58
Oh yes, Emily Ould.

Tracey Dockree 41:00
Emily Ould, Emily Charlotte Ould. And she is amazing. She is so supportive. And yet she gives you so many insights at the same time. Just totally made me think. It gave me more confidence to do the editing because I had, I kept putting it off.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 41:18
It’s so easy to put it off, isn’t it? You think you’ve got it on paper. You think, I’m done with it for a moment and your mind is kind of blocking going back to it.

Tracey Dockree 41:30
Yeah, but now I feel that, yeah, this is a good story and I just need to kind of fill in all the major plot holes of which are loads of them and…

Ella Walsworth-Bell 41:36
But you can spot them. You can see them now and you can see what you might do about them. (Yeah) And that’s, that’s so annoying. If I pick up a book and there’s an unanswered question or it’s not finished in one part, it kind of really bugs me. So, it’s nice to have your own work as finished as it could possibly be. What do you like reading yourself, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 41:58
A mix of things really. So, I do tend to prefer fantasy. One of my earliest books that I really fell in love with was The Voyage of the Dawn Treader

Ella Walsworth-Bell 42:10
Oh, I love that book.

Tracey Dockree 42:11
And it’s still one of my favourites. And Tolkein, obviously.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 42:15
Yeah. Classics. I can reread them even now, those books, and I still love them.
The cover is quite important for a book for me as well. Like the The Dawn Treader, I can, when I close my eyes, I can visualise that image on the front of the copy that I had at home in my mum’s house when I was a kid. It’s really interesting, isn’t it? (Yeah) And I know some of your, your Cornwall short story anthologies had illustrations in them, didn’t they? How important was it to get those illustrations right, Tracey?

Tracey Dockree 42:39
So, the illustrations in the book, we didn’t do any for the first one, but it was something that I wanted to do because I, because again, CS Lewis kind of spoilt me (Yeah) because he used the odd kind of little (line drawings) Yeah, that’s it, line drawings, in his stories. And I just really fancied having a go. And I basically told the authors that they could submit one. It was optional and quite a few of them did.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 43:16
People can draw as well as write. That, I had to get a friend to help me with that bit, Tracey, I have to be honest. It’s not my picture. It is somebody else’s.

Tracey Dockree 43:25
That’s fine. And I think most people got someone else to do it for them.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 43:32
Oh, did they? That makes me feel a lot better.

Tracey Dockree 43:34
It’s just a way of, kind of, I don’t know, it just adds to your story. It just gives it a little bit more depth, I think.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 43:43
It did. It does. And it’s a starting point for the imagination, isn’t it? It doesn’t give you the whole character, but it gives you a kind of little push point or a starting point.

Tracey Dockree 43:54
A glimpse. Yeah.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 43:55
The other thing you did, in the build up to some of your, these short story anthologies being published, was you encouraged the authors to read a little bit of their story and then you released it as little clips, didn’t you, which was great.

Tracey Dockree 44:09
Yeah, I think, I think people like being read to. (Yeah) Yeah, they’ve been very popular.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 44:15
Yeah, it really kind of piques your interest and those are visual as well because we had to kind of create the, the kind of artwork to go with it, didn’t we? That was really interesting.

Tracey Dockree 44:24
Yeah. A little teaser.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 44:26
Yeah, that’s the word teaser. Thank you. Yeah, not the whole story, but just a little teaser of it. But what’s really nice for me is hearing people’s voices alongside the words they’ve written. I think that’s lovely too. Really brings it to life, doesn’t it? Because who best to share the writing than the person who’s created it, because you know where all the pauses and the, the emphasis needs to be.

Tracey Dockree 44:48
Absolutely yeah. Because you can read a story and get one kind of impression from it and then you hear the author read it and it’s a different story.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 44:59
Yeah. Which brings me to my last point, really, because I know your next kind of publicity event for the most recent book, Beneath and Beyond, is actually on a boat. Isn’t it, Tracey? Tell me a little bit more about that.

Tracey Dockree 45:13
Yes. So, there’s going to be a 2-day book festival down at Charlestown, on board Lady Daphne. So, she is a 100 and, well, she’ll be 101 years old this year. She’s a sailing barge and she used to work in Charlestown harbour, carrying the clay.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 45:36
China Clay. Yep. Wow. So, when you step on board that boat, it’s like you’re stepping into a slice of history, isn’t it? It’s really, yes, kind of echo-ey on the floor. It’s really atmospheric.

Tracey Dockree 45:49
So, we’ve got a stall. We’ll be selling our anthologies plus a few other books by other authors. And yeah, we’ll be there for two days, signing books that, if anyone comes in and wants a book signed.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 46:03
Ah, I should imagine Charlestown will be pretty busy, and that’s in August, isn’t it?

Tracey Dockree 46:08
So, I think it’s the 9th and 10th of August.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 46:12
I mean there’s loads of books festivals in Cornwall because we’ve been involved together at the Falmouth Book Festival, haven’t we? Which was really good fun.

Tracey Dockree 46:19
So that was the Fringe Festival.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 46:21
The Penzance Fringe, wasn’t it?

Tracey Dockree 46:23
Yep, Yep. I like the Fringe festivals. They tend to be more intimate, and the audience is kind of like, like it’s in your living room.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 46:32
And the audience are really dedicated to finding new authors, aren’t they? Because the fringe is where the most up and coming authors are going to be. So they’re really interested in how that process works.

Tracey Dockree 46:43
Yeah. They’re a lot of fun.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 46:45
Yeah. And often the audience is mostly writers as well, aren’t they? So, it’s double whammy there. I think we’re nearly at the end. I’ve been talking to Tracey Dockree, also known as TJ Dockree. Tracey is a sustainable fashion designer based in Truro, who also writes. She’s working on her novel, but she also set up the Cornwall Writers group. And is that still open to new members, Tracey? If listeners wanted to get involved, could they find the Cornwall Writers website?

Tracey Dockree 47:20
Yes, so the Cornwall Writers website is cornwallwriters.co.uk and so, if you’ve written anything and you are connected to Cornwall in any way, you can add an author bio on there. You can add any of your books on there. We also have the writing group website. We’ve got a Facebook group – Cornwall writing group. That’s probably the easiest place to go.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 47:46
If you’re a writer or you’re thinking about writing and you want to find your community and pick up a few pointers, then that will be a good place to start, so Cornwall Writers. Thank you. So, we’ve been talking to Tracey Dockree about her writing, but also about Cornwall Writers’ short story collections, the most recent of which is Cornwall Beneath and Beyond.
Tracey, this is the point at which I ask you to choose a lovely piece of music to send us away with. What would you like people to listen to and why?

Tracey Dockree 48:22
Okay, so for my second piece of music I’ve chosen California Dreaming by Mamas and Papas. It’s one of those songs that’s kind of constantly been in my, in my environment since I was very, very young.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 48:37
Trickled into the subconscious.

Tracey Dockree 48:39
Yeah, my parents listened to it. I listened to it as I got older. It’s, it’s just one of those songs that I just kept going back to. When I had my kids and they were very young and they wouldn’t go to sleep, I would basically sing along to them California Dreaming with them sitting on my hip.

Ella Walsworth-Bell 48:58
It’s a nice long song as well, isn’t it? So, California Dreaming by the Mamas and Papas. Thank you very much, Tracey.

Tracey Dockree 49:08
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

00:49:44 to the end – music